Ambassador Grand TCIC 2000 & ISZ 1800

Folks..
I drove Ambassador for almost 5 yrs (old model) and I see today some improvement with PS /Isuzu engine etc..
This car is one of the best cars at High speeds also ( although it is limited to 130KM/hr).
It doesn't overturn so easily because of its inherent design ,however all other modern cars i know,don't have stability on " Braking" at high speeds and turnings./corners.
This car is the safest car I know. Even SUV's don't have the stability this car has, even otherwise some of other SUV's are costlier .
Believe me, this car is the best car I know for less overall cost and SAFETY at high speeds with Indian road conditions and long journeys ( Very comfortable with no fatigue).
"yes ",I do accept that it needs further refinement in mileage/ other features the modern cars have.(coil Rear suspension/ABS /Engine condition indicator etc/coolant level indicator-warnings/AT-Cruise control etc)
If further more refinement is done with features of modern cars , the market value of this car will improve drastically.

Thread Moved & Avoid mentioning the names of other sites unnecessarily.


VT

There is no TCIC engine in Amby, as far as i know. From my experience, modern cars are more stable than an Amby(may be older ambys are stable due to their weight). Classic's ride and handling is not up to the mark and worser than older ambys. A major improvement or a next gen Amby will straighten things up.

Hey JJ,
How about some images of your amby???

RoadRocket

Hey JJ, What is the power output of the TCIC motor. Your review compels me to check it out. This is because, in current times, I have never thought high of it.

Crazy cat wrote:There is no TCIC engine in Amby, as far as i know. From my experience, modern cars are more stable than an Amby(may be older ambys are stable due to their weight). Classic's ride and handling is not up to the mark and worser than older ambys. A major improvement or a next gen Amby will straighten things up.

i second on that. many modern cars are much more stable. its just the weight of the amby and also low speeds that amby travel that makes it feel stable. press the throttle a little more then needed and you know you are driving 5 decade old car with poor handling, poor ride quality and stability. many modern cars are stable even above 150kmph and amby can hardly pull upto 120-130kmph.
but yes even after that amby is a classic car in itself. and yes offers good comfortable seating position. and well build quality is something old ambys can boast about. but the same cannot be said about the newer amby models.
no matter what the modern machines are much ahead of the aged amby.

The last time I drove Amby was around 12 to 14 years back. That was an hand gear one. I personally enjoy the hand gear and prefer them to the floor gears. I happen to visit the local HM dealer in Calicut in Jan 09, I noticed that Fit & Finish is still poor and it needs more power. From my past experience on breaking, I always felt that power break is a must and Amby can not be managed with normal breaks (old times). So I am not sure how safe was it in the past. Some of the old Amby had the bad reputation of 'pumping required' for proper breaking ! Anyways, Amby is a great car for sure and I still love it.

Brakes have been upgraded to discs, but still it is poor and locks at high speeds.

Folks,
I saw in Team-bhp where there are photo/pictures of new TCIC DSZ 2000 Amby's with higher HPs's (not 50 but 75 HP).
Well, there are lot of improvements to be made in Amby if HM has to capture the market .
I am not quite sure about new cars handling > 150KM/hr, however amby looks ok until 130KM/hr.
However, needs disc brakes in rear wheels also with ABS.
Well, by design its the best car on indian roads.

JJ wrote:Well, by design its the best car on indian roads

I would like to correct this.
Its not the best car on Indian road but yes, Its the "Best car suited for Indian Roads".
From looks Amby still resembles to its older siblings.


VT

"Yes " you are correct , it is best suitable car for indian roads in rural areas.
Well, i read in HM website that the days of Amby's are over now and it looks they are now struggling to even survive the stiff competition and sell the inventory.
At least now they should comeup with a car (probably new version of Ambassador )which is modern considering todays requirement in the market ,so that they could atleast survive with this car.
Infact ,i was wondering since Mitsubishi-HM is coming up with electric-hybrid , what are there plans on Ambassador with a age old technology.
HM should wake up atleast now and save the "The great Ambassador car" in the market .

I love the design of Amby. Ride, handling, quality, brakes, engine, more utilisation of space should be done.

Hi Crazy cat and other experts,
Please clarify ,why in Amby alone radiator water with coolant should be checked every week /every 2 weeks and filled up???????
Infact ,in all other cars i know ,no body checks radiator coolant/water level , infact it is only checked and filled during service at the dealer ,may be 3 times a year based on usage.!!
I don't understand this concept in Amby and this is one reason, no one wants to buy it for personal use after looking at modern cars maintenance .

I feel the reason behind it is that Amby is still based on the old concept with those carburettor etc.
All modern cars are now MPFi.


RoadRocket

That's the reason Amby has to improve a lot.

Infact new Amby's come with MPFI and PS.
Even then you need to check theAmby's radiator water with coolant, atleast every 2 weeks.
This is a major design setback in HM's amby's with even a Isuzu engine under the bonnet.
Infact none of us would like to/have time to check that out (or) would like to do so when all other cars in the market don't operate that way.
This is a fantastic car by design (mayn't be that aerodynamic) but few improvements could again bring this car back to its original market .
Infact again I want the experts to comment..
Amby needs..
1) Very effective cooling system so that you check coolant ./water level only during service (every say 2000 KM).
2) Disc brakes on all wheels (Rear also)
3) More improved suspension with coil springs etc..
4) ABS and improved stability at high speeds since indian roads ( Highways) have improved a lot now.
5) The most appealing thing in any car which attracts customer is when the front door is opened, the looks inside (i.e) the dash board,steering wheel , Instrumentation. Infact many cars still do have cheap quality plastics..!!! More Improvement is needed in this area in Amby.
6) Quality of small door parts , switches etc
7) More importantly , the quality of Pedals ( Clutch/Brake and Acc'tr) . They are too hard.
It could be made lighter as in other modern SUV's.
8) The gear (Floor gear) should be also lighter and smoother.
9) One thing HM had never done this seriously (i.e) Advertisement in TV.
10) If possible put a V6 engine in amby, see how it works..
Most of the people still think that Amby's are very hard to drive and don'tknow that they are with Isuzu engine.
If HM does atleast these improvements, it could capture some general public market.

Hello JJ,

I really appreciate your thoughts but most of the changes you have mentioned aren't really much practical on a car like Ambassador, Even if HM does it, It will shoot up the Ambassador's price which would obiviously affect the sales.
According to what I feel is that majorly what Amby need at this time is a major facelift, The design should be improve because the car has still looks of its vintage siblings, No doubt the car is best suited for Indian Road conditions but these days Indians are also equally concerned about looks, FE, Features etc.
Another reason amby isn't getting much popular among general public is because its majory used for our (corrupted) politicians, Taxis etc. I would say that its a universal truth that most of the people don't opt for the cars which are very common in a specific category, such as for politician, taxis etc as I said above.

Coming to your other points...........

JJ wrote:Very effective cooling system so that you check coolant ./water level only during service (every say 2000 KM).

Yes, It definitely need this, Also I would say to introduce a new more powerful engine in it.

JJ wrote:Disc brakes on all wheels (Rear also)

They could offer them and it will really improve the braking of car but all four discs are generally seen on cars priced at 10+ lacs segment.

JJ wrote:More improved suspension with coil springs etc

Yes, This is too needed, I think it comes with those bumpy leafsprings now right?

JJ wrote:If possible put a V6 engine in amby, see how it works..

We should never even dream of V6 in amby.


VT

There is no doubt that Amby was a very nice car back at its day, and still is a pretty good car, if maintained well, which itself is a herculian chore. To be honest, its time for the Amby to have a dignified phase out. We must stop clinging to it like this and think of it as a classic, which mobilised India before the Maruti 800. It is a car with which most of us have fond memories. We should cherish them and move on, just as history is treated as history and not the present. The hard truth is no amount of facelift or modification can bring it back to life. If they try to change the chassis design and other mechanicals, they would need lots of funding. It'll be as good as designing a new car. So its time for the Amby to have a royal, dignified retirement.

Yeah practically i don't find much options for HM to improve amby to modern car standards. i'm just wondering what HM will do in 2010 with BS IV norms.

Ha ha !!! After a V6 one, we will get a V8!!! Amby- The indian Hot ROD!!!!

and that is Ambassador SRT-8!

dcargod wrote:There is no doubt that Amby was a very nice car back at its day, and still is a pretty good car, if maintained well, which itself is a herculian chore. To be honest, its time for the Amby to have a dignified phase out. We must stop clinging to it like this and think of it as a classic, which mobilised India before the Maruti 800. It is a car with which most of us have fond memories. We should cherish them and move on, just as history is treated as history and not the present. The hard truth is no amount of facelift or modification can bring it back to life. If they try to change the chassis design and other mechanicals, they would need lots of funding. It'll be as good as designing a new car. So its time for the Amby to have a royal, dignified retirement.

i was about to say this exact thing. no matter how good the car was. its time is over now. giving it facelifts like done with some of the new amby's just spoils its royal looks. i second the opinion that amby should retire now. it has done its part. its a vintage classic car now and should gracefully remain that. unless ofcourse HM comes up with a completely new amby like a Rolls Royce does with Phantom. which is quite impossible. its too late for the amby to evolve into a modern car now.it was acceptable if it happened gradually over the years like it happened with other cars. its just like Amitabh Bachchan being asked to play a role of a college boy.
there are too many changes required in amby to fit into the current competition in the market. even the politicians and private taxi drivers have started moving on from the amby mode towards innovas and taveras. and well its not really suited for indian road conditions with those bumpy leaf-springs at the rear and the poor cooling of both engine and cabin.

dcargod wrote:There is no doubt that Amby was a very nice car back at its day, and still is a pretty good car, if maintained well, which itself is a herculian chore. To be honest, its time for the Amby to have a dignified phase out. We must stop clinging to it like this and think of it as a classic, which mobilised India before the Maruti 800. It is a car with which most of us have fond memories. We should cherish them and move on, just as history is treated as history and not the present. The hard truth is no amount of facelift or modification can bring it back to life. If they try to change the chassis design and other mechanicals, they would need lots of funding. It'll be as good as designing a new car. So its time for the Amby to have a royal, dignified retirement.

Well said dcargod.
I agree with you.


VT